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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 31 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1288<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Taxation (off topic then back on topic)<BR>
Missing Subjects Was(Re:     )<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller:  Aberrant jump d...<BR>
Alien Protest Forms (was: [OT] One Day In Peace 2)<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller:  Aberrant jump ...<BR>
RE: Traveller economics <BR>
RE: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace 2<BR>
Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re:  'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Who's that knocking on my door?<BR>
Re: One Day In Peace 2<BR>
RE: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
New at The Traveller Trader<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
Protest in the 3I, was  a dead horse spot called Re: One Day In Peace 2<BR>
Re: Re Maps<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
Re: Don't say I never listen to you...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:53:29 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxation (off topic then back on topic)<BR>
<BR>
>> > (okay, so the hospitals are free, the schools and universities are<BR>
>> >free, etc. And no, Denmark is not a communist state - it's just the<BR>
>> >way it is)<BR>
<BR>
What I want to know is why would someone think Denmark was a<BR>
communist state?  Not because of the social programs listed or the<BR>
high taxes mentioned, surely!  Health care and higher education is<BR>
pretty close to being free in most of Western Europe and Canada<BR>
isn't it?  We might joke about it, but we really don't think Canada<BR>
*or* Denmark is a communist country.  Now, if you said that Denmark<BR>
has banned private ownership of property, especially productive<BR>
property, that would be a different story.  <g><BR>
<BR>
Feel free to ignore my personal opinions, but about the state<BR>
providing social services...  We all know these services aren't<BR>
*really* free.  So, you should expect higher taxes if the state is<BR>
paying for extensive social services.  At what level where this is a<BR>
good trade off (increased services for everyone vs higher taxes<BR>
assessed against everyone) is a debatable point that every country<BR>
has to make, but one that can exist in any mixed market economy<BR>
state.<BR>
<BR>
I think one of the problems folks in the US have with government<BR>
provided services is that we don't perceive the services are (or<BR>
would be) worth what we pay (or would pay) for them.  The perception<BR>
may be right or wrong, but it is there.  Personally, I think it is a<BR>
size problem.  Public education through 12th grade is free and is,<BR>
for the most part, both locally controlled and financed.  Programs<BR>
that extend beyond the local or state level is where most people<BR>
have seem to strongly object. <BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav:  It appears that schools and universities are generally<BR>
free in the OTU as well.  Otherwise, PC's would have the strong<BR>
possibility of having outstanding loans after graduating.  Frankly,<BR>
I think, a lot of us play the medical system as being pretty much<BR>
free as well.  When's the last time you asked a PC for an insurance<BR>
card or denied them medical care until they paid, or showed that<BR>
they could pay for the care? <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:12:10 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Missing Subjects Was(Re:     )<BR>
<BR>
On 10/31/99 at 04:50 AM,  "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Smoke Ring, *might* be in set in Known Space, but I don't think it<BR>
>>is. There was a sequel to The Smoke Ring a few years ago, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
>"Smoke Ring" IS the sequel... to "The Integral Trees". If there is a<BR>
>Third book, please, gimmitz the title!<BR>
<BR>
You are correct, Smoke Ring was the sequel.  I also remember Rammer<BR>
now that you mention it...and The State as described would have been<BR>
a very bad place to live.<BR>
<BR>
And re the subject line....it seems like you've been sending a lot<BR>
of posts recently without a subject.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:50:00 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller:  Aberrant jump d...<BR>
<BR>
On 10/31/99 at 10:32 AM,  "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> It has a detailed timeline, and astronomical details derived from fanatical <BR>
>> analysis of all of Pournelle's writings.  <BR>
<BR>
>Slight correction.<BR>
<BR>
>It's http://www.chronology.org/pournelle<BR>
<BR>
...and it still doesn't give any guidance on how an Alderson Point<BR>
is determined.  I suspect we'd just have to do a handwave on this<BR>
anyway.<BR>
<BR>
I know that in the MiGE universe the points are generally several AU<BR>
out from the star, but for a varient, I don't see why we couldn't<BR>
put them close to the star.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:19:23 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Alien Protest Forms (was: [OT] One Day In Peace 2)<BR>
<BR>
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:46:21 -0800, "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>ObTrav:  I wonder about different protesting styles in the cultures of the<BR>
>Third Imperium.  How do the Vilani protest ANYTHING?  Do the Vargr and the<BR>
>Aslan even have demonstrations?  Do the K'Kree throw paint on old ladies in<BR>
>furs?<BR>
<BR>
A bit amusing....<BR>
<BR>
K'Kree -> No protests against K'Kree society.  K'Kree living abroad (all 7<BR>
of them :-) may stage protests as directed from above.<BR>
<BR>
Vilani -> Rare protests.  Those that do occur follow tradional forms<BR>
exactly, as does the official response.  They only occur for tradionally<BR>
accepted reasons.<BR>
<BR>
Vargr -> All the time.<BR>
<BR>
Alsan -> Yes.  Highly ritualized.  Different forms for whether you are<BR>
willing to stop short of starting a blood feud.<BR>
<BR>
Zhondani -> No.  Those who are unhappy are "helped" before it ever comes to<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
Droyne -> Generally no.  May occur as directed by a Leader but mass opinion<BR>
has little or no meaning among the Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
Hiver -> Probably not.  Discontent is expressed through less public channels.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:33:43 -0000<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
<BR>
Jason Kemp forwarded the following:<BR>
<BR>
>This a 24 hour concept where no guns are fired anywhere on earth,<BR>
>including on television. What if: for 24 hours, whosoever was at war<BR>
>in December 1999,agrees that for one whole day, no guns would  be<BR>
>fired. The silence would be golden. What if: the television<BR>
>programmers of the world agreed NOT to air any programming with a<BR>
>violent content?<BR>
<BR>
It's entirely possible that I'll have a hangover when I wake up on January<BR>
1st, so I might actually appreciate the silence. However, I think it will be<BR>
better to silence the Prince song "1999" for a day, since I'll probably hear<BR>
it more times this New Year's Eve than I have since it was released.<BR>
<BR>
Apart from that, I don't really care. I don't buy the "cause and effect" of<BR>
violent movies and television on people. If it were, I would most likely be<BR>
a bloodthirsty bastard who would make Hannibal the Cannibal look like Mary<BR>
Poppins.<BR>
<BR>
>What if people boycotted movies with violent<BR>
>content?<BR>
<BR>
To put it simply, it would draw more people to movie theaters to see those<BR>
violent movies. In point of fact, if such a thing happens at a theater near<BR>
me I vow that I will take lots of Motrin, drink lots of caffeine and go and<BR>
see the most violent movies possible.<BR>
<BR>
>At present this ONE DAY IN PEACE concept is beginning to<BR>
>get further circulation. Can you spread this concept so that a<BR>
>possibility might become a reality?<BR>
<BR>
To put it bluntly: No.<BR>
<BR>
Jason, my apologies if you're insulted by my comments.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:46:09 EST<BR>
From: RnLschaefr@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller:  Aberrant jump ...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/31/99 5:52:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 I know that in the MiGE universe the points are generally several AU<BR>
 out from the star, but for a varient, I don't see why we couldn't<BR>
 put them close to the star. >><BR>
A points are usualy about 5au's out from a star if the map in The Gripping <BR>
Hand is any indication.... <BR>
BobS<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:53:30 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller economics <BR>
<BR>
Keven R. Pittsinger wrote:<BR>
> > Is the money traded like it is on our <rl> stock markets?<BR>
><BR>
> Beats me.  I never *could* figure out currency exchanges.<BR>
><BR>
> > Who sets the exchange rates? That is; how do they decide that<BR>
> > a Swordworlder buck is worth half a credit or whatever?<BR>
><BR>
> On 'lawless' worlds, the banks do.  On medium law worlds, the<BR>
> local gov does. On high law worlds, the local gov does, but you<BR>
> can prolly get a *better* deal on the black market.  Just don't<BR>
> get caught!  <grin><BR>
><BR>
> The chart:<BR>
<BR>
First off, in RL most financial systems  partially  separate  the<BR>
stock market, bond market, commodities market, and forex (foreign<BR>
exchange or currency) market.  However, the forex market tends to<BR>
work much like the stock market ...  currency  is  fast  becoming<BR>
just another type of asset like a stock.<BR>
<BR>
Currency is often abreviated to "ccy"<BR>
Exchange rate is often abreviated to "xrate"<BR>
<BR>
Now there are two xrates: the PPP (purchase price  parity)  xrate<BR>
which is used by economists to compare  different  countries  GDP<BR>
figures (etc), and the market xrate which  is  used  by  everyone<BR>
else when buying and selling ccy.<BR>
<BR>
The PPP xrate is  the  rate  that  *would*  exist  if  goods  and<BR>
services had a universal price.  For example if a range of  goods<BR>
cost USD 10,000 in the US and the same goods  cost  GBP 6,000  in<BR>
the UK then the PPP xrate would  be  USD 10  =  GBP 6  (or  about<BR>
USD 1.67 per GBP).<BR>
<BR>
The market xrate is xrate the free market thinks  it  should  be.<BR>
As a rule of thumb developed nations tend to have a market  xrate<BR>
similar to their PPP xrate, where as third world  countries  have<BR>
market xrates of 75% or even as low as 50% of their  PPP  xrates.<BR>
However the actual market xrate will bounce  around  this  figure<BR>
based on speculation much as stock prices bounce around.<BR>
<BR>
In anything other than a planned economy (socialist states,  etc)<BR>
the market xrate is set by the free market.  In planned economies<BR>
the xrate is set by the planetary government ...  and  where  its<BR>
rate differs from a free market evaluation there will be:<BR>
<BR>
1) a "black market"<BR>
2) a preference amongst locals for non-local major ccy<BR>
3) an impediment to international trade<BR>
<BR>
Note that banks (etc) typically quote the xrate with their  mark-<BR>
ups already added in (thus they quote a  separate  buy  and  sell<BR>
rate for each ccy).  The difference  between  the  buy  and  sell<BR>
xrates is called the "spread".<BR>
<BR>
The chart given only begins to make sense if you think of  it  as<BR>
giving the xrate in local credits ... where there are N local ccy<BR>
units ("bucks", "quid", "yen", whatever) per local credit.  N  is<BR>
a relatively stable but otherwise random number.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"If the ship is sinking - maybe the rats have a point."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:05:45 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: RE: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
<BR>
On 10/31/99 at 09:11 PM,  "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>> 6)The Hivers wouldn't do it this way...they'd manipulate the 3I<BR>
>> to fall of it's own accord...much bigger bragging rights doing<BR>
>> it that way than straightforward conquest. They also would not<BR>
>> ally with the K'Kree, or the K'Kree with them.<BR>
<BR>
>Ah ha!  That explains the *real* reason for the Rebelion.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, wasn't it obvious? ;-J<BR>
<BR>
>JFK^B^B^BStrephon  was  actually  assassinated  by   the   Hiver-<BR>
>manipulated IRIS, and Dulinor was set up to take  the  fall.  And the<BR>
>Hivers used the ubiquitous Droyne (aka "the Greys") as  their agents.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it goes much deeper than that.  The Hivers were<BR>
manipulating both Dulinor and Lucan.  One to assassinate Strephon<BR>
and the other to finish distrupting the center. <BR>
<BR>
Yes, and the Virus was a Hiver manipulation too! <BR>
<BR>
...but you didn't hear any of that from me. <wink><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:23:32 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace 2<BR>
<BR>
>>Since when does yelling and throwing paint contstitute "peaceful<BR>
picketing"?<BR>
>><BR>
>Yelling is indeed peaceful picketing by the standards generally applied.<BR>
It is also something that doesn't hurt anyone and shouldn't be restricted.<BR>
Like I said, even many pro-choice advocates who remember the tactics used<BR>
against them in the sixties have taken this position.<BR>
><BR>
I have a problem with protesters (of anything) who get up into your face and<BR>
yell things directly AT you.  Yelling "one two three four, time to stop this<BR>
effing war" or other appropriate slogans, is one thing.  Abortion and animal<BR>
rights protesters, and union protesters too, though, have this habit of<BR>
getting into people's faces and yelling personal insults directly at people.<BR>
This is, by most legal definitions, assault-- and should be prosecuted as<BR>
such.<BR>
<BR>
>Throwing paint is indeed a violation of the law and should be<BR>
>dealt with.  But trying to use the tactics of a radical faction<BR>
>to discredit an entire movement is a tactic that was wrong when<BR>
>applied to anti-Vietnam War protestors and should be avoided<BR>
>here.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
No one was trying to do that-- I merely mentioned that this does not happen<BR>
in Japan.  My personal position on abortion and animal rights has yet to be<BR>
stated.  However, my not being a Christian may be a big clue as to the<BR>
former; this is *generally* (I know there are some exceptions) a religious<BR>
issue.<BR>
<BR>
>>If all the protestors do is stand around outside with their signs and draw<BR>
attention to themselves, I have no problem with that.<BR>
>><BR>
>Others do.  Laws have been passed to limit this.<BR>
><BR>
I understand this, but I should imagine these laws do not hold up in court.<BR>
<BR>
>> The minute they start harassing others and/or try to interfere with<BR>
people trying to get into the clinic, they are no longer engaged in<BR>
"peaceful picketing".<BR>
>><BR>
>I agree (as long as you are talking about real harassment and not simple<BR>
things like shouting your beliefs).<BR>
><BR>
Shouting beliefs, fine.  Getting directly into someone's face at spitting<BR>
distance and telling them that THEY are a murderer (whether because they<BR>
wear fur, are entering a women's clinic, or are going to work at a nonunion<BR>
company), not fine, especially if you are gesticulating wildly and in<BR>
general, behaving in a threatening manner.<BR>
<BR>
>  Even here there is some hypocrisy in the world.  I know many people who<BR>
see not problem with harassing scabs crossing a picket line who get bent out<BR>
of shape by anti-abortion protestors.<BR>
><BR>
I'm not one of those people.  I don't think you have the right to get in<BR>
another person's face and shout at them.  I don't think that being in<BR>
protest of something should obviate the normal laws against threatening<BR>
behavior, assault, and battery.  I also think that aggressive panhandlers<BR>
(the kind that follow you, act menacing, and make you wonder if they will<BR>
mug you to get the money) should be jailed.<BR>
<BR>
> The problem is that too many people are simply trying to limit advocacy of<BR>
views they disagree with.  Instead we should be trying to reach a consistent<BR>
definition of what is allowed and applying it evenly to all.<BR>
><BR>
I agree.<BR>
<BR>
Now that we've agreed, perhaps we should find a way to steer this<BR>
conversation back to topic.<BR>
<BR>
What is allowed in the 3I?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan            93!              Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
the current fair warnings:<BR>
<BR>
"No matter what, expect the unexpected.  And whenever<BR>
possible, BE the unexpected."     -- Lynda Barry<BR>
<BR>
"Honest to the point of recklessness, and self-centered<BR>
 in the extreme."            -- Robert Hunter/Jerry Garcia<BR>
<BR>
"God sent me to piss the world off!"  -- Eminem<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:31:47 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
<BR>
Now I feel stupid.<BR>
<BR>
:(<BR>
<BR>
Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Shimmergloom wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > opengl95.exe<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Any of you 3d artists out there have a copy of this file?  I can't find<BR>
> > anywhere.<BR>
><BR>
> Look on the Drivers disk that came with your video card.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Evyn...<BR>
><BR>
> Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin<BR>
> Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall<BR>
> Bunches of roses all over my coffin<BR>
> Roses to deaden the clods as they fall<BR>
>  Laredo<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
<BR>
      Shimmer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:09:27 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
> From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
> Okay, how about an example closer to home? Canadians watch the same <BR>
> violent TV and movies that Americans do. Canada's level of social control<BR>
> is for the most part the same as what one finds in the USA. On the other<BR>
> hand, Canada's violent crime rate is a small fraction of the USA's.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, it's obvious that our attempts to destroy Canadian society and turn<BR>
it into a shadow of the United States have met with repeated failure. <BR>
Our scientists continue to study methods of dealing with the Menace of<BR>
the North.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:18:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
<BR>
> From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
<BR>
> I ripped off an idea today and I'm looking for feedback:<BR>
> 'The General War' ( a 5FFW variant)<BR>
<BR>
It's too big for 5FW rules, I think.  Remember, the 5FW map is of only<BR>
about one quarter of the Spinward Marches, and still takes up about half<BR>
a pool table.  I think this idea is better suited to Diplomacy (which we<BR>
were discussing a while ago on the TML; the seven players as Imperial,<BR>
Solomani, Aslan, Zhodani, Vargr, K'Kree and Hiver was my idea (although<BR>
maybe not only mine)).  <BR>
<BR>
> Ref note:  This idea comes from about 50 billion different sources; the<BR>
> couple I'm<BR>
> prepared to cite are Star Fleet Battles and G:T. SFB has a campaign<BR>
<BR>
See supra.<BR>
<BR>
> And now, on to our questions:<BR>
> 1. Plausibility:<BR>
>     a. Could they have the means to launch such a war?<BR>
>      b. Would they launch such an attack?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, sure they do -- but do they trust each other enough actually to<BR>
expose their military/naval resources to the Imperium?  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:21:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Gary Miles" <garyglennmiles@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
> In my univerese, there is a small-but-persistant sect called the <BR>
> Psychohistorians (most refer to them as Psychos). They hang around starport<BR>
> terminals, with shaved heads and saffron robes, chanting:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Hari Seldon, Hari Seldon<BR>
> Seldon, Seldon,<BR>
> Hari, Hari..."<BR>
<BR>
I'm so glad that I decided to read one more TML and then go get<BR>
something to drink, instead of vice versa.  My nose and keyboard<BR>
appreciate it.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:35:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Who's that knocking on my door?<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
> Need I mention that a similar situation (say, with the religion of an<BR>
> alien race) has *great* potential for a Traveller scenario?<BR>
<BR>
"What's with Smith?  He's dressing weird lately."<BR>
"Oh, he converted to a Chosen One during a long op in Gvurrdon Sector."<BR>
"What, I didn't think you could convert to Judaism?"<BR>
"No, not those chosen ones, I mean the Vargr religion.  He's just asking<BR>
for trouble."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:41:51 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: One Day In Peace 2<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  I wonder about different protesting styles in the cultures of the<BR>
> Third Imperium.  How do the Vilani protest ANYTHING?  Do the Vargr and the<BR>
> Aslan even have demonstrations?  Do the K'Kree throw paint on old ladies in<BR>
> furs?<BR>
<BR>
The Vilani probably have a traditional, sanctioned form of protest that<BR>
involves completing official protest forms at the appropriate<BR>
administrative office.  Come to think of it, that's probably how the<BR>
Zhodani handle it, too, except that forms are just a formality to create<BR>
a record, because the Tavrchedl have already figured out what the<BR>
protestors are upset about and made recommendations to the local noble<BR>
council.<BR>
<BR>
How can an outsider even tell if the Vargr are protesting?  In any case,<BR>
protest styles will vary extremely across the incredible diversity of<BR>
Vargr societies.<BR>
<BR>
The Aslan probably have great traditions of noble and honorable protest,<BR>
including carrying petitions to Edo (but not ritual suicide, as I<BR>
recall).<BR>
<BR>
The K'Kree shoot old ladies in furs.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:44:21 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: 'general war' 5FFW [long]<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@exchange.rb.cwplc.com><BR>
<BR>
> Ah ha!  That explains the *real* reason for the Rebelion.<BR>
<BR>
Remember, even the Knights Templar are just a Hiver manipulation.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
(current holder of the Templar Award for Avoiding Being Photographed)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:53:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: New at The Traveller Trader<BR>
<BR>
Things have been a little slow at The Traveller Trader (TTT) for October,<BR>
but just in time for the start of a new month I have received and listed a<BR>
new batch of materials :-)  To get things started off on the right foot, I<BR>
am offering a special discount to TML members for the month of November.<BR>
This coincides with my personal first anniversary of subscribing to the<BR>
list.  I have greatly enjoyed both the topical and the way-off-topic<BR>
discussions this past year and you all have inspired me to spend many hours<BR>
publishing lots of new stuff on Downport.com.  If there is something you'd<BR>
like to order from TTT please mention that you are a list member and I will<BR>
take 15% off of the listed prices.  Again, thanks and I look forward to<BR>
another great year with the online Traveller community!<BR>
<BR>
http://www.downport.com/ttt/<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
The TRAVELLER Domain<BR>
http://www.downport.com<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:24:38 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Apart from that, I don't really care. I don't buy the "cause and effect" of<BR>
> violent movies and television on people. If it were, I would most likely be<BR>
> a bloodthirsty bastard who would make Hannibal the Cannibal look like Mary<BR>
> Poppins.<BR>
<BR>
As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence in TV and<BR>
movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see random acts of<BR>
situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:41:17 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Protest in the 3I, was  a dead horse spot called Re: One Day In Peace 2<BR>
<BR>
Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > ObTrav:  I wonder about different protesting styles in the cultures of the<BR>
> > Third Imperium.  How do the Vilani protest ANYTHING?  Do the Vargr and the<BR>
> > Aslan even have demonstrations?  Do the K'Kree throw paint on old ladies in<BR>
> > furs?<BR>
> <BR>
> The K'Kree shoot old ladies in furs.<BR>
<BR>
No, they don't...they nuke them and their planets from orbit, just to make<BR>
sure. If they're feeling particularly frisky, they sterilize every system for<BR>
a parsec around, unless the have nice pastureland, in which case they just use<BR>
lots and lots of neutron bombs.<BR>
<BR>
Hivers stage three different counter-protests, publish subtly biased articles<BR>
in obscure but influential journals and infiltrate counter-agents to bend the<BR>
protesters organization to their own ends.<BR>
<BR>
The Solomani protest with tanks and fixed bayonets...oops! I'm sorry, that's<BR>
the Solomani _response_ to protests...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:50:07 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Maps<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> >Another thing you're missing, here, I think. The 3I only appears bigger than<BR>
> >all of the other groups because all we see are the 3I-centric maps. All of the<BR>
> >major polities have occupied space that goes far beyond the fringes that show<BR>
> >on the 3I maps.<BR>
> ><BR>
> I possess a wall-map version and the version of the known space map in the<BR>
> Library Data book clearly showing the extent fo the Zhodani, Imperial,<BR>
> Aslan-Tlakhu, Hive Confed., Solomani Confed, and the 2000 worlds (K'Kree).<BR>
> So far, none of the CT alien modules have disagreed with said maps.<BR>
<BR>
You mean something like the "KNOWN SPACE" maps that show the Solomani<BR>
confederation being approximately half the size of the 3I, only part of the<BR>
Hierate, and small bits of the 2000 Worlds and Hive Federation? Is this the<BR>
same as the maps in the Imperial Encyclopedia?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:01:55 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day Of Peace<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> As Dick Cavett put it so eloquently many years ago, "If violence in TV and<BR>
> movies causes violence in the world, how come we don't see random acts of<BR>
> situation comedy breaking out on the streets?"<BR>
<BR>
I see it constantly.  I wish I didn't.  Life would be much easier that<BR>
way.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:50:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Don't say I never listen to you...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, ask and ye shall receive.<BR>
><BR>
> Several of you have emailed me with comments about my website. In response<BR>
> to your comments, I have _again_ changed the sight - removing all scripting<BR>
> and much of the graphic "bitz".<BR>
><BR>
> What remains? I'm using the following:<BR>
>     HTML 3.2<BR>
>     Frames<BR>
>     Cascading Style Sheets, but the site will work with out them.<BR>
>     Tables<BR>
><BR>
> No DHTML, no JavaScript, no Applets, etc...<BR>
><BR>
> Several people said that they thought a site should be pure text - no<BR>
> graphical elements or layout at all. Well, I don't think I can go that far.<BR>
> I find text only sites to be rather boring - my opinion, of course.<BR>
><BR>
> I hope that you find this _new_ version to be acceptable and faster. And<BR>
> keep the comments coming.<BR>
<BR>
*My* take on this is that a pages should be *usable* in text mode. And<BR>
that if you've got the nifty "inline" graphics, it would be nice if<BR>
they were tagged so that us "text only" folks can download them to view<BR>
later.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1288<BR>
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